I received four emails (one last night and three this morning) and all are the same forwarded corespondents about a "fourth player". No intro text was provided by the four senders apart from FYI. The corespondents is basically about the fourth player in the Nat triples. I am going to remove all names from the emails and will put them later today on our Wiki.
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20 comments:
Oh can someone remind me why i walked away from this game. Yes i still play when i want to and i still read with interest what is going on. But as i have said before this game will only go forward when you realise the game is bigger than the few individuals that do the things to suit them salves. Your tournament numbers are going in the wrong direction why would you make it even less atractive to go to a tournament.
Myles Cowper.
I agree with you Miles.
I don't play anymore but I have wonderful memories of the good old days when you have a game of Petanque with a drink in one had and a ciggie in the other and you could even wear gumboots if you wanted. The piste resounded with the sound of laughter and a bloody good time was had by all. I was saddened to see that Rotorua have cancelled their tournament because of numbers and to hear that Masterton only had 14 teams entered. Both iconic tournaments. When I applied for the CEO's job a few years ago I made it very clear that my main priority was to keep an emphasis on the grass roots of the organisation and to maintain a high level of communication. I so wish I had had the opportunity to do so.
Recently the Masterton club had an article in the local paper celebrating the fact that 5 of its members had been selected for the New Zealand Trans Tasman Team. A fantastic result for the club and well deserved BUT if I was looking at joining a club to play Petanque would that sort of information put me off if I just wanted to play socially. I wonder why clubs are not building there membership as they would hope. I don't see anything in our local paper about coming down on a Sunday afternoon for a game. From the little snippets I hear from the people i keep in touch with around the country, it seems to be the same old thing, poor communication, cost, self indulgence by some.
As much as I miss the people that I met I would struggle to be involved and keep my mouth shut. As you can see, i cant even do that when i NOt playing.
Graeme Burnard
Totally agree with Myles, Graham and the writer of “what a load of bullocks” ... PNZ seem to be constantly pandering to the few, 99% of us do not inspire to be internationally competitive petanque players, we just want some good clean competition, with consistent and clear rules to play by,.... do they realise if every team that enters plays as a 4 player team it could effectively reduce the team entry numbers by up to 25% (if my maths is correct) ... 2009 Triples (latest figures I could find) had 31 teams of 3, if we played them as 4’s we would only have 23 teams ....we are already struggle to hold a competition with enough teams to make it worthwhile , why do something that is going to reduce the number of teams even further ? I understand its optional but we all like to compete on an even playing field, and you would, arguable, be at a disadvantage if you played as a team of 3 against a team of 4.
Also ,I read a posting on Petanque Stuff by SteveF, while I myself don’t mind what sort of terrain I play on, I can understand where he is coming from and have also heard some comments from players similar to what he is saying in regards to quality of pistes. I remember a few years ago a push by some of the so called “elite” to make terrains more inline with international standards, more challenging and to prevent players from “rolling their boule” . They of course fail to see the bigger picture when they promote this kind of thing. The vast majority of people who make up our tournaments are social players who have no aspirations of being on the world stage. They don’t expect to win the tournament but would like to put up a good fight and have a few wins, why would they want to waste their money on a tournament that is played on a terrain that is far to difficult for their style of play and more frustrating than fun, we can't afford to alienate these players ! and quite frankly the best part of petanque is watching an elite get hammered by a granny roller ...
Sarah-Jane
Just maybe, and it's a pretty big maybe, PNZ were thinking about some other players as well as the elite. (Nah! Totally out of character) Perhaps they were thinking that we have a number of players who are struggling to play in a full two day tournament from 8.30 until 6 p.m. so what if they were allowed to play as a four and take turns during the day. Maybe that would be one way, only one way mind, of trying to make it easier and more accessible for those players to play.They could even whip away from the terrain and have a smoke and a wine in peace while watching their team play. They could even shout out words of encouragement and have some fun. Impossible, who does PNZ think they are, trying something different to look after some of our less athletic. This is unheard of! Let's totally assume the worst and see how far they can drag the sport down.
Now I know that some will see this as being a bit facetious( not sure of spelling) but do you really think that we spend weekends trying to work out ways that we can upset as many people as possible. Mind you, having said that it does sound tempting, particularly as we are apparently successful at doing this with very little effort.
Dear reader, before you dash off a response, give me a little time to don some protective emotional armour. I know I shouldn't take the mickey out of something so vitally important, particularly in my role on the PNZ. I have had counselling but you know I just can't keep my mouth shut if I think something is unfair
Cheers
Dirk
Wow!!!i'm i missing something here??
who are the Elite players!!!!
Georgio
Hey Dirk
I am all for anything that encourages players back to the terrain and if PNZ believe the above format could help increase entry numbers and entice new players then why can’t this be communicated back to the clubs, so the clubs can sell the concept to their players who may have not participated in the past because of the reasons you state above. A good idea is useless if no one knows about it …
The only communication I have seen was on the PNZ website stating that this format was introduced for the benefit of the selection players to prepare for their oversea’s tournaments. (or words to that effect)... if there was any other reasons it would have been nice to take the opportunity to state it.
At the end of the day its not the 4th player that I am overly concerned about, it the reduction in participation numbers and the effect the 4th player concept may have by either putting players off or reducing the overall number of teams by consolidation. But I guess the proof will be in the pudding … I hope its not the case and the Nationals get a decent turn out.
I can’t even find the rules a round playing a 4th player ? It would be good to know the substitution rules prior to the tournament; does anyone know where they can be found?
SJ
ummm I'm pretty sure it's on the French Federation Website.
georgio.v.
On the grand scale of things to have one tournament a year where four player teams are possible seems to me to be a small advancement/change to things and am totally surprised with the feelings being generated by this change.
The term scapegoating comes to mind here or at least the channelling of frustrations and disappointments of members with other issues.
Of course comment and freedom to express it should be encouraged but over the last few months much of it seems to be of an all to similar nature and tone.
The big issue of numbers being down in tournaments is a worry but over the last few years what has been done at club regional and national level to promote the sport and gain new members?
People change, interests and situations.
Even the financial climate has led many people to travel less so open tournaments are attracting less out of town players.
National tournaments are also heading the same way so it will be up to the Auckland region to support this event.
We can chuck blame around and see to whom it may stick but what productive value do we gain from this?
The tournament is in a competitive market not just with other tournaments but with other sport, recreation and social activities including life.
Perhaps it has been taken for granted that the small community of players would always choose to spend on tournaments.
If we wish to see great numbers in future tournaments then we firstly need to look at promotion of the game and recruitment of members at all levels.
I hope the tournament goes well and that those who choose to take part are rewarded with an enjoyable weekend of petanque.
Morgan Choveaux.
Hi Morgan
I agree with your sentiment, my issue is really not with the 4th player, but with making changes that could have a negative effect on tournament numbers without adequate research, the 4th player introduction effected me as 1 member of my team pulled out because she though PNZ had lost their marbles (she’s entitled to her opinion and has decided not to participate) and the other then decided she didn’t like PNZ’s direction either …. So obviously there are people, for whatever reason, put off by this format.
People are voting with their feet, that’s what they do in this sport as they have learnt from past experience there is no point in raising your concerns or complaining. For every 1 of us that makes our views known via this website, 10 members have walked away from petanque and said nothing, PNZ seems to give the impression that they prefer this approach, in my opinion changing that perception would go a long way to improving thing in petanque.
I guess the reason I am not adverse to people making comments or pointing out what they view to be wrong is because of the job I do. I rely on consumer feedback, complaints, and advise to ensure the products our company sells is going in the right direction, for me a consumer that simply dislikes the product and walks way without giving feedback is detrimental to our companies success. I see Petanque as no different, it needs promotion and feedback to ensure its growth. That is not to say we react to every complaint but if a pattern occurs we address it and make changes to ensure we keep the best part of consumers happy.
I know the PNZ can only do so much, they have given up their time to administrate the sport and for the most part do a great job of it. Maybe PNZ could look at putting together a project team to focus on communication, promotion, member retention, recruitment of new members, and to gather feedback from current members, I for one would be willing to give my time to be a part of a project team.
Thanks !
SJ
What a bloody shambles! Dwindling memberships....... Competitions being cancelled through the lack of (entries)- "people" -players! Last years hefty increase in capitation fees payable to PNZ. Now the Cockle Bay club witholding their affiliation fees. Sarah J having the nerve to make some suggestions and ask, some reasonable pertinent questions! And an "out" of order "elected" PNZ board member like a rat on speed abuses his possition taking the piss! Wonderful! And, they, PNZ, CLub's wonder why petanque numbers are going down! That with lack of communicating-acting akin to legends (in their own minds! Biting the hands that feeds them $10 per year! And for what? From my point of view, more especially when only a very small number of Napier Club members play competively- the vast majority are purely social players who enjoy playing the sport -whilst multi tasking at the same time by having a bloody good time! What do those members receive for their $10s from PNZ? Tell me if I'm wrong-but from my own observations -they receive S F A! Sweet Fanny Adams. Over a year ago, we, the Napier Club, wrote to PNZ, asking if all our members could be supplied -issued with a PNZ Membership Card as proof of their paying, and "belonging"! Sad to say, to date, we have never received a reply! The petanque fraternity is small enough now. WITHOUT PEOPLE YOU-WE HAVE NOTHING. One of the main reasons we encourage enjoyable visits from groups of college students and members from other local social clubs.
David Bosley
Dave Bosley
Napier City Petanque Club Inc
Hi Sarah-Jane,
There is already a board person responsible for Membership Services - it might be a good idea to contact her with your idea of a project team on all the topics you raised as part of communication, which incidentally I think is a great idea.
Liz Rocks
I am all for the right of people to be able to comment and share their views be they negative or positive. In fact I incourage it.
It is an essential part of any democratic society.
I am only dismayed by how easy it seems to be to jump on the negative bandwagon and how readily people are prepared to do this.
It saddens me to see this and also to see people voting with their feet.
Emotional responses are instinctive and natural, and when there is little hope at appropriate discourse to resolve issues, understandable.
I remember awhile back from somewhere a paper discussing the idea of people as an under utilised resources in our sport.
I know for a fact that there are many people with skills, time and passion ready to give to this sport in many areas yet are unprepared to stand for the few official positions.
When we look at the few elected/appointed officials and the responsibilities and workloads they accept it is no wonder that there is perceived failure and discontent.
I believe it may be time to tap into this under utilised resource.
I myself have made offers to contribute my skills at various levels on numerous occasions but for reasons nothing came of it.
I am still prepared to offer and accept the requests if asked and I am sure many across the country would be in a similar position.
It is amazing how people will be ready to give when asked upon.
M. Choveaux.
Dave, I love that.... 'a rat on speed'. Not sure how I abused my position but I'm sure someone will let me know as people love to direct and attribute the blame to someone. Apparently if you are a board member you just have to put up with whatever terms of endearment are directed at you.
My response was an individual one and did not in anyway reflect Board policy. As this is not an official PNZ site I thought that I might be able to voice a personal opinion.
Obviously I don't have that right so I am sorry that I upset you Dave but as I stated in my original post I don't even have to try that hard.
dirk
No, like some others, you don't need to try at all!
And I'm Not at all upset Dirk. I just wanted to have my say. However, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't upset about you loving the part about the rat on speed!
Seriously, however, I do believe PNZ could do much more to communicate with the clubs. And that they could, at very little cost, issue all affiliated rank and file members with a Membership Card, with the PNZ logo on it as a receipt and proof of their being a bona fide member of PNZ! This, I believe, would give all social players a sense of their belonging to a national sporting organistion. Something to show for their $10's
Dave Bosley
Hi there Dave
I totaly agree with you, that at least P.N.Z should consider making a certain type of ''Membership Card '' with the P.N.Z Logo on it.It would be good & Great for all the CLub in NZ and they Members, showing that they are affiliated with P.N.Z., with the Membership Card.
Georgio
Morning all,
Having levels of membership could have some merit. Obviously we will have to look at the logistics of how that might work administratively and what each level of membership means in practise.
I would be quite interested in hearing from any of you who would be interested in putting a bit of effort in regard to putting a bit more detail around it.
It may require some constitutional changes so if anyone wants to work on this please email me directly and we can begin looking at possible scenarios and the effect this may have on ALL concerned.
What about it Dave? We can get together at the Autumn Triples - a rat on speed and a gnome!
Cheers
d
Ahahaha ??? you just had to chuck that in again..aye!!
Georgio
Cheers Georgio, a true gentleman & scholar!
As for you Dirk you missed your calling. Q:Do you agree with a membership card?A: Well...blah -goble de gook Yes & No! Your'e a natural-you should of gone into politics! I'm No Sir Geofrey Palmer LLB VD and scab, but surely to goodness some form of card as proof of ANY person paying PNZ, to belong,and be affiliated to PNZ, doesn't NEED any particular category of membership or changes to the PNZ Constitution.
That said, thanks for the offer Dirk. It could be helpful if you could bring a "hard" copy of the current PNZ Constituition with you when you come up. And maybe we could get our heads together-in public of course. Cheers D
Hi Dave,
Do I agree with a membership card? To be honest it doesn't really bother me one way or another. I wasn't on the Board when they stopped issuing licences on an annual basis. These were a membership card of sorts. It may have been a cost or time factor. Rest assured it will be discussed at the next Board meeting.
cheers
R.o.S
Hey Dirk you better otherwise Dave will come with the '''a rat on speed'on you.
Geo
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